INTERVIEW | SINN FÉIN PRESIDENT GERRY ADAMS MP

The struggle for change is all about small battles and clear objectives

IT WAS the Sunday just after the Donegal South-West by-election when Gerry Adams completed the interview he’d started two days previously, on the day of the count. An Phoblacht had to give way to other pressing engagements in Gerry’s hectic schedule. He took up the interview with JOHN HEDGES early on Sunday afternoon, before the details of the IMF sell-out were being revealed.

You’re just back from the election count in Donegal South-West where Pearse Doherty was elected as the new TD for Sinn Féin. It’s a good result.

First of all, one has to appreciate the outstanding work done by Pearse and our team across County Donegal from back quite a long time.
Pearse did make a stand when he took the Government to the High Court over blocking the well-overdue by-election. There would have been no by-election if it had been left to Fianna Fáil, the Green Party, Fine Gael or Labour.
It was Pearse who took the Government on and people have applauded that across the constituency, and that was clear on all the canvasses I was on.
Pearse is going to be a brilliant addition to our Leinster House team, the only effective Opposition party in Leinster House that is determined to oppose the IMF and the Fianna Fáil/Green Party Budget.

Pearse’s election is obviously much-needed in Donegal by people who had been denied by Fianna Fáil their right to full parliamentary representation but what does it mean for people around the rest of the country?

Pearse’s victory is an overwhelming rejection of the Government’s four-year plan and its proposed Budget.
We asked the electorate to stand up for Donegal; we asked them to stand up for Ireland; and they have done this.
What the Government should do now is postpone the Budget and call an immediate general election.

You putting your name forward for the Sinn Féin Dáil general election nomination in Louth has been described by more than one media commentator as the biggest political gamble in your life, leaving a safe seat in West Belfast. Isn’t that more so given the dire straits the 26-County economy is in, the IMF’s arrival, a harsh Budget looming and the state in huge crisis?

Well, struggle is all about taking risks and taking chances. If you feel it’s the right thing to do you do it.
My motivation is to try as part of a team to argue for a better way because I firmly believe there is a better way. It’s also to make a stand and hopefully in that way to encourage others to make a stand also.
We need genuine republican politics based on core republican values and that is what this is about.

And if you were to get elected to Leinster House, how would that change the political landscape.

Struggle is made and struggle succeeds by virtue of a whole series of small battles accumulating in a critical mass of support coalescing around clear objectives. I certainly have no pretensions about my own influence in any of this –  and it’s obviously for the people of Louth at the convention and then in the election to decide if I’m elected or not but it is clear that the crisis is not just economic, although that is at the core of it, but it is social and political.
We have a republic in name only.
There are scores of thousands of people out there who share Sinn Féin’s vision and who do vote for the party right across the island but there are lots of other people out there who have a similar vision, who want a real republic, who want a united Ireland, who want citizens’ rights, who want decency and accountability and fairness and a society which is based upon entitlements and rights.
We need to win them to Sinn Féin. We need to get them to vote for Sinn Féin. We need to get them to join Sinn Féin.
Sovereignty is invested in citizens, invested in people, that’s the core of Pearse’s ‘Sovereign People’. That is the essence of what republicanism is about. So we have to keep that debate alive, challenge opponents who do not believe in these values – who are not for community, who are not for citizens’ rights - and make alliances with those who do.
If I am elected, I would like to think I could make a positive contribution to that necessary dimension of our struggle.

What do you say about claims by commentators that Sinn Feín doesn’t have a grasp of economic issues?

Let’s recall that those who challenged Sinn Féin on our knowledge of the economy are, by and large, the same people who created the total economic mess that the state is in at this time and the social, political and financial consequences for families. So I don’t take that from them.
You’re always careful not to say ‘I told you so’ but Sinn Féin, in Leinster House and on other platforms, at the height of the Celtic Tiger era, was arguing for the economy to serve the people and for the wealth to be distributed so there could be sustainable jobs and proper public services
Those who refused then to redistribute the wealth are now quite happy to redistribute the debt.
The dreadful obscenity is that the Government, in giving a dig-out to its friends, is prepared to saddle every man, woman and child with massive debt which will be carried for generations –  if they get away with it.
Sinn Féin hasn’t bought into the Consensus for Cuts. We have put forward a longer timeframe to reduce the deficit but we have also put forward commonsense, practical proposals to stimulate the economy because you cannot cut your way out of a recession. You need to grow your economy.

Is the media rightin saying that the only alternative government is a Fine Gael-led coalition propped up by Labour?

The two parties who are presenting themselves as the next government were rejected by the electorate of Donegal South-West.
The significance of the Donegal by-election is that people had a choice of five or six candidates and they chose Pearse and Sinn Féin.
The Labour Party needs to review its position. Its little adventures with Fine Gael in the past have not served citizens well and have not served well those communities and groups who Labour - like Sinn Féin - would be expected to defend, particularly communities described as disadvantaged.
I don’t doubt that there are many sincere people in the Labour Party but they won’t defend the disadvantaged or advance equality by going into government with Fine Gael.
So I think Labour should reconsider their position. Eamon Gilmore can’t be railing against Government cuts and then committing himself to implementing them if he gets into power.

But people want this Government out.

Sinn Féin is standing in the next election as an independent party.
I appreciate that the next government formed will be a coalition but I and Sinn Féin wouldn’t be rushing into government unless a Programme for Government supports citizens’ rights and a united Ireland, supports the Peace Process but – particularly at this time – has a mandate to reverse what the current Fianna Fáil/Green Party Government is doing.
Our platform will be to get the IMF out of our affairs, to stimulate the economy and opposition to cuts.
People are also disillusioned because in the four-year-plan there are no proposals dealing with the bankers, there’s no stimulus package, there’s no effort to take on those who are the wealthiest but they’re ready to take money off of those who are the most disadvantaged right down to the minimum wage.
Any new government should refuse to honour the terms of the IMF/EU deal and Sinn Féin will seek a mandate in the general election to renegotiate it.
We would only consider going into government with a Programme for Government that covered those proposals.

People thought ICTU’s Dublin march was a good thing but left it thinking, ‘What now?’

What is needed now is a strategy that is coherent and practical and that people can identify with and have a sense of empowerment from and ownership of.
Going on a big march is good because it shows how people feel, it generates solidarity but it has to be part of a wider, coherent strategy.
Making a stand is a start but there has to be a follow-through.
The elections are clearly going to be a big focus. Pearse Doherty and the other Sinn Féin TDs will be going back into Leinster House this week and our single focus will be to bring about a general election. That is our clear intention.
The Government needs to cancel the Budget, cancel the four-year-plan, have all the parties put forward their propositions and call a general election to let people decide what they think is the best way forward. That way, at least, a new government will have a mandate
People should join Sinn Féin. We should be actively recruiting.
We had hundreds of people working to help elect Pearse. We need more, all over Ireland, in every county.
We have a general election coming up in the South in the New Year, Assembly and local government elections in the North in May, possibly by-elections in between so we need people who want something done to bring about genuine change to join Sinn Féin. Elections can be important and part of a wider movement for change: look at the United States in the 1960s and South Africa and the North more recently.

How do you see the Budget crisis in the Six Counties and the way it’s playing out?

As we speak, there is a small group from the Executive representing the parties on the Executive meeting to agree a Budget. I would be fairly confident that we would be able to reach an agreement. But it has to be on the basis of facing down the Tories and their cuts, protecting the disadvantaged, defending and enhancing public and frontline services, creating and sustaining jobs and empowering citizens.
Sinn Féin is the only party to have put out our programme of proposals publicly and argue for fiscal powers and this has certainly struck a chord, even with unionist voters, whatever their elected representatives may say.

You’ll obviously miss being an MP and MLA for West Belfast but won’t your presence be missed there as leader of Sinn Féin?

We have a very good team of MLAs and backroom staff in our offices, local councils and the Assembly so there will still be an active, campaigning organisation in the communities we represent,.
I must say I will miss Gregory Campbell of the DUP.
Gregory for me was always the best way to judge what was going to happen. I used to use him as my little gauge of what was likely to happen because when Gregory said there would be no power sharing, there would be no Sinn Féin in government, there would be no transfer of policing and justice powers, there’d be no Justice Minister in our lifetime... well, we have seen those things come to pass. So Gregory’s recent pronouncement on there not going to be an Acht an Gaeilge gives me even further hope.
That aside, if I am elected for Louth, I’m only going down the road and Sinn Féin is an all-Ireland party (the only all-Ireland party).
I shall be working in Louth as a TD with the support of Arthur Morgan, Tomás Sharkey and all the team there, but I’ll still be in Belfast and Dublin to do work involving the Peace Process and in the Dáil with Caoimhghín, Pearse, Martin, Aengus and others on other national issues.
Sinn Féin is an activist, campaigning, all-Ireland party. That’s not going to change.
We want more people to join Sinn Féin to change the way things are now.