6 June 1997 Edition
Television: Diet Fine Gael debates the Thatcherite axe-vixen
Spurred on by their own boredom and schadenfreude, many readers will have tuned in to Prime Time (RTE, weeknights, 9.30) to watch Dick Spring and Mary Harney attack one another. They got a special treat before the ``debate'' even began - Prionsias De Rossa stuck in a hole, digging.
Wasn't Democratic Left supposed to be about redistributing wealth, asked Eamon Lawlor. Oh yes, said Moscow Man, and the Rainbow had done ``a massive amount'' of redistributing wealth.
When Lawlor pointed out that there were more poor people than ever, poor old Prionsias became very agitated.
``Statistically, there are more people below the poverty line, but statistically also those who are below the poverty line in fact are levelling up towards that top mark,'' he spluttered.
The £500 million in tax reduction in the last budget was a significant redistribution of wealth, he pleaded half-heartedly. Also, we have a 10-year plan to eradicate poverty, he murmured.
``Why a 10-year time frame?'' asked Lawlor. ``The Conference of Religious in Ireland says it could be done in five - the priests and nuns are more radical than you are!''
How did the great socialist leader respond? He said only that the priests and nuns did not know as much as he did about how the system works. He went on to say that he would not call on DL supporters to give their second preferences to Labour rather than Fine Gael, but he would prefer people to vote PD than Sinn Féin.
De Rossa fought hard to be interviewed on the same programme as the Harney/Spring debate, but, as with his libel action against the Sunday Independent, his own supporters must have groaned in distress at the outcome. He damaged himself badly.
But if De Rossa sounded like he was leader of Diet Fine Gael, Mary Harney came on like Fidel Castro.
``We live in a country that's booming,'' she began, ``but as I go around the country, I meet many people who say to me `Where's this Celtic Tiger?'. We've high unemployment - a quarter of a million people - 100,000 long-term unemployed...I want to be part of a government that ends our two-tier society, that narrows the gap between rich and poor. I want some of the fruits of the economic boom to go back to the workers who created the boom, particularly the PAYE workers.''
Dick Spring said the Rainbow's record was good, that lots of jobs were created under its reign. Mary Harney held up a penny - the amount the average PAYE taxpayer gained under the current administration - and accused him of sanctioning ``the tax amnesty for tax cheats''.
This offended Dick, and sadly he began to speak before his brain was really in gear: ``I can answer that very openly and very honestly. If you look at the tax take, the reduction that took place between 89 and 92 and compare it with between 94 and 90, 93 and 97, and particularly the last two years, the tax take has reduced significantly more exactly what people are taking home in their pockets.''
(Note to readers: don't bother reading that paragraph again, you were right the first time, it is gibberish.)
But now Spring went on the attack, accusing Mary Harney of being a crazed Thatcherite axe-vixen determined to wreck the public service.
Because this is not only true, but the main reason a significant number of rich people vote for her in the first place, it was odd to see her reject it. She held aloft her manifesto, and asked Dick if he would ``accept'' that the 25,000 redundancies she planned in the public service were to be voluntary.
He didn't say he would accept this, so she repeated the question ``Do you accept that?'' 22 times in a row. Then she accused the Labour Party of scaremongering, and being ``bad losers'', while he uttered forth an endless stream of meaningless platitudes.
This high level of debate continued until the compere, Brian Farrell (yes, he's back, now wearing a bow-tie, and more self-important than ever), brought up the topic of the North.
Instead of Dick Spring suggesting to Mary Harney that the PD's knee-jerk unionism and naked hatred of Northern nationalists would serve only to undermine the peace process, he just agreed with her that bipartisanship was the way forward in Leinster House.
And rather than Mary Harney saying that instead of boasting about how he helped create the peace process Dick Spring should ask himself why it turned to dust in his hands once he and Fergus Findlay decided that their hatred of Fianna Fáil was more important than peace, she merely agreed that he had done a great job.
Then the great debate resumed once more, with Dick saying the PDs were Thatcherite and Mary Harney producing a giant photo of Tony Blair, waving it at Spring like one would wave a cross at a vampire. When he said she was harsh, she said that she wasn't as harsh as the way the government had treated Brigid McCole.
A couple more accusations - ``pig in a poke'', ``you're running away'' - and it was over. And so, thankfully, will be the election, by Saturday evening.
Wasn't Democratic Left supposed to be about redistributing wealth, asked Eamon Lawlor. Oh yes, said Moscow Man, and the Rainbow had done ``a massive amount'' of redistributing wealth.
When Lawlor pointed out that there were more poor people than ever, poor old Prionsias became very agitated.
``Statistically, there are more people below the poverty line, but statistically also those who are below the poverty line in fact are levelling up towards that top mark,'' he spluttered.
The £500 million in tax reduction in the last budget was a significant redistribution of wealth, he pleaded half-heartedly. Also, we have a 10-year plan to eradicate poverty, he murmured.
``Why a 10-year time frame?'' asked Lawlor. ``The Conference of Religious in Ireland says it could be done in five - the priests and nuns are more radical than you are!''
How did the great socialist leader respond? He said only that the priests and nuns did not know as much as he did about how the system works. He went on to say that he would not call on DL supporters to give their second preferences to Labour rather than Fine Gael, but he would prefer people to vote PD than Sinn Féin.
De Rossa fought hard to be interviewed on the same programme as the Harney/Spring debate, but, as with his libel action against the Sunday Independent, his own supporters must have groaned in distress at the outcome. He damaged himself badly.
But if De Rossa sounded like he was leader of Diet Fine Gael, Mary Harney came on like Fidel Castro.
``We live in a country that's booming,'' she began, ``but as I go around the country, I meet many people who say to me `Where's this Celtic Tiger?'. We've high unemployment - a quarter of a million people - 100,000 long-term unemployed...I want to be part of a government that ends our two-tier society, that narrows the gap between rich and poor. I want some of the fruits of the economic boom to go back to the workers who created the boom, particularly the PAYE workers.''
Dick Spring said the Rainbow's record was good, that lots of jobs were created under its reign. Mary Harney held up a penny - the amount the average PAYE taxpayer gained under the current administration - and accused him of sanctioning ``the tax amnesty for tax cheats''.
This offended Dick, and sadly he began to speak before his brain was really in gear: ``I can answer that very openly and very honestly. If you look at the tax take, the reduction that took place between 89 and 92 and compare it with between 94 and 90, 93 and 97, and particularly the last two years, the tax take has reduced significantly more exactly what people are taking home in their pockets.''
(Note to readers: don't bother reading that paragraph again, you were right the first time, it is gibberish.)
But now Spring went on the attack, accusing Mary Harney of being a crazed Thatcherite axe-vixen determined to wreck the public service.
Because this is not only true, but the main reason a significant number of rich people vote for her in the first place, it was odd to see her reject it. She held aloft her manifesto, and asked Dick if he would ``accept'' that the 25,000 redundancies she planned in the public service were to be voluntary.
He didn't say he would accept this, so she repeated the question ``Do you accept that?'' 22 times in a row. Then she accused the Labour Party of scaremongering, and being ``bad losers'', while he uttered forth an endless stream of meaningless platitudes.
This high level of debate continued until the compere, Brian Farrell (yes, he's back, now wearing a bow-tie, and more self-important than ever), brought up the topic of the North.
Instead of Dick Spring suggesting to Mary Harney that the PD's knee-jerk unionism and naked hatred of Northern nationalists would serve only to undermine the peace process, he just agreed with her that bipartisanship was the way forward in Leinster House.
And rather than Mary Harney saying that instead of boasting about how he helped create the peace process Dick Spring should ask himself why it turned to dust in his hands once he and Fergus Findlay decided that their hatred of Fianna Fáil was more important than peace, she merely agreed that he had done a great job.
Then the great debate resumed once more, with Dick saying the PDs were Thatcherite and Mary Harney producing a giant photo of Tony Blair, waving it at Spring like one would wave a cross at a vampire. When he said she was harsh, she said that she wasn't as harsh as the way the government had treated Brigid McCole.
A couple more accusations - ``pig in a poke'', ``you're running away'' - and it was over. And so, thankfully, will be the election, by Saturday evening.